Axis Wakeboard Boat Forum

Wow. Thanks for all the input guys; this gave me a lot to read up on.

I'm pretty sure I'm going for the 2450lb set with the 750's in the rear and some lead up front, but I am very interested in hearing more on those sumo sacs Johnny D was talking about. I've got at least 6 months to wait so please post when you hear more guy.

As for the prop I still got a little purple haze all in my brain, the two props I'm looking at are either OJ TZ-X5 or the ACME 1235. Is there anybody that has the 2450lb with the rear 750’s set up in their A20 with 335 that can tell me what prop they are running and how they like it?

How many people will be in your boat?? IMO both of the props you are thinking of getting are a mistake. When Malibu/Axis tested props the 5 blade didnt rank so well. The OJ 5 blade was a fix to the OJ Core prop. Both not so great props. I ran 750s with about 1000 in the bow with a 1235 and the plane time was still a little long for me. Many people on here may agree and many may object. With the 2315, you could run 37-38mph empty and when weighted you could run 5k with no idle surging.

If you are running 750's with the bow sac under the seat and factory 900 full you will need to use lead. Since the rear of our boats were not designed for water skiing they do not pop up like a diamond hull from a wakesetter. You will need to almost balance your weight front and rear.

Pat. Good info on here. You have plenty of time so I am sure by the time you have to make the decision, you will know exactly what you want.

Gibby is right, I do not run the wedge and choose to use ballast/lead only (3800-4800 approx). scroll down to next paragraph if you have heard this before: A22, no wedge, 335 CAT motor, 750's in locker, front pnp under seats, 400 lead at the very tips in the bow. I ordered it with the OJ core 4 blade (14.75 x 12 i think). I did not like the prop for many reasons, but it did get my boat up on plane, full fuel, 4-6 adults plus a kid, gear, 1400 elevation. Prop is loud, has top speed of 35ish and wakeboarding rpms were high. The OJ Cinco came out with everyone raving about it (similar to the excitement of the new ACME 2300 series). So a bunch of us got it on a deal. I personally like the prop and somewhere I did a same day, side by side comparison on both the OJ core and OJ cinco. I have an Acme 1235 at my disposal and will be testing that thing soon, and will add that prop to the other 2 so that prop buyers will have some good data to help decide. I hope someone uses my format and tests those acme 2300's so we can add to the list.

The A20 needs less weight than the A22 which is good news. And I agree with gibby that the Axis in general like bow weight. So a couple hundred pounds in hidden led in the tips will be money for your boat.

As for the Straighline Sumo series. I rode today and tested the 600 sumo. Short story, it is a great sac and perfect for the A20 or A22 owner who is looking at the 400's or 750's. If you plan on being a serious surfer and are looking at the 1100's as an option, then just get the 1100's. But if you are looking at the 750's, I say get the sumo 600's.

They have 2 drain holes and 2 fill/vent holes plus a big center hole that is the burp hole/ fill hole for the tsunami pumps. So in total 5 holes. They come with 4 90deg threaded PNP quick disconnect adapters like the fly-hi system has. They thread in real easy, hand tight, and they did not leak. The pnp quick disconnects that I currently have worked on the sumo sac exactly like the fly high. It took me about 20 seconds to switch out my 750 for the 600. As you may know already, the flyhigh 750's are too long for the rear lockers, so they stick under the back seat bracing and hose/wire carpeted cover. My 750's get smooshed in the front causing the rears to stick up a little bit, making them look like a wedge sack. Their is a little bit of air tapped in there unless you burp it once it's almost full. ( No big deal, only a couple gallons at max) If the 750 rating is correct, then I would guess my sacs are around 700 when completely full. The 600's fit perfectly. they fill up completely and do not put pressure on that front hose/wire cover and do not get pinched off. (there is an L bracket with a screw at the bottom of both hose/wire covers that put pressure on my 750's and I can see the mark where it hits, so far no leaks) The 600's were about 2-3" taller in the back and came up to about 2" from the bottom of the locker edge, the 750's are about 4" from the bottom. The front of the 600's are just as high, but the 750's slant down in the front because of the cover. If the 600 rating is correct, then they are 600 lbs in the locker as they fully fill and expand. Another good thing about the 600's is that it does not take up any of the rear bench corner storage like my 750's do.

Now for the wake: I ran full ballast today except I switched out ONE 750 for one sumo 600. I also ran my 800 lbs floor sack (that is dope by the way ) full fuel, 3 adult males, 1 child, gear... etc. When filling the rears, the side that had the 750 in it filled first by 30-60 seconds. If my pumps are equal, that would lead me to believe that the 600's actually hold more weight. However, I do recall that one side usually fills faster than the other side and I do not remember which side it is. Even so, if the side with the 600 normally fills slower, then there was no change in fill times over the 750's so they weight approx the same. If the side with the 750 fills slower, then the 600 sac holds a lot more water than the 750.

Once the boat was completely full, it sat perfectly even from left to right, and when riding behind it, the wake looked normal and we did not have to shift people or lead to clean up the 600 side. I would say that they are almost exactly the same weight.

If I did not already have my 750's, I would be buying the straight-line SUMO 600s for sure. They are available at wakemakers right now. As for the bow sack, I was told today they will not be ready for the market until about march-april of next year.

a few pictures of the sacs and setup

more

okay, okay... This has been a great amount of free information that I have enjoyed reading from you all. I was so excited about the new boat last year that I didn't get to do my ballast system as well so i'm in the same boat shopping for my setup this winter as well.

You might as well be a rep for the 600 sumo because i'm sold on it at this point. I'm trying to take it all in for what I need and the setup you just mentioned sounds awesome. EXCEPT I have concerns. I do not think i'm ready to put the huge sac on the floor as I usually have 8 people on the boat on the weekend. How does this differ the wake without the weight on the floor? What if I don't have a loaded boat should I consider the floor sack? Also i'm starting to understand the need for the even weight distribution that the Axis boat likes from front to rear. I'm seeing a lot of people with led in the tips which seems to be the way to go; however as I said I do primarily wakeboard but after a session I like to drain one side and do some surfing. How does this affect the surf wake if you have the lead distributed across the front? Seems like you would need to shift them but that would be a pain. I'm just trying to find a very versitle setup here but not be overkill (just yet).

Johnny knows a ton about weighting for wakeboarding. I do know if you are surfing a axis you can use a surf sac in the rear. Put almost as much weight in the front to compensate. You dont want the boat totally plowing. This will extend the wave out quite a bit and you will be a happy surfer.

I am sold on SUMO too. I may pick a few up along with the floor sac.

Thanks gibby, but i wouldnt say a ton, I just have a lot of info passed down by people like us and have tried to put it to use and pass it along.

As for surfing, I am no surfer but what Gibby says is what I have been reading as well. Chatwake has his A22 dialed for surfing, and I know there are a few surfers on here with A20's that will be of great help.

Floor sac, no, don't do it. It is too big for the A20 floor and is not needed. I just use it sporadically when I feel like playing on a super big wake, or if I have some really good riders out with me.

If you have 8 people in your boat, plus the pnp sacks, your wake will be mackin. Really, it is a huge wake with that set-up. I have not tried a stock ballast plus floor sac only wake so I cannot comment, but I would never do it as it does take up floor space and some time to drain and fill. (I hate filling fat sacs) 4 two-hundred pound dudes in my boat instead of the floor sac is a different wake. I do not know why that is, but it is. I can theorize that the floor sack has the weight spread across a big area and really low under the seat cushion level and the 4 dudes have most of their wieght above the seat cushions. I am sure physics could explain this, but I do not know.

Lead in the bow, a couple hundred pounds will be fine for everything. I keep my 400 in the bow and 250 in the cabin all the time. My boat sits noticeably nose low when all the ballast is empty, but levels out nicely once all my ballast is full. when we have little kids or beginners, I dump all the ballast and it has a nice clean wake at 18mph, the lead does not hurt the beginner wake (and may actually help it). For surfing, you will want some weight up front, not sure the ratio of front to back weight (I use 50/50 for malibu hulls for wakeboarding as a starting point and have had excellent and consistent results) so having lead in the bow will be fine for surfing as you can drain some of the bow sac or center hard tank. No, you will not be able to move it from side to side. It is a pain in the rear to get the bags in to bow, so once they are in place, they are not going anywhere. I can get all 8 of my bags out in 15 minutes, but it is not fun. I just have them spread across the bow in between the two outside tips. You will need to cut open the 6" diameter front access hole a little bit to get the Lead-wake 50 lbs bags in there, and cut a lot more to get the pop-product 40 lbs bags in there. I think i posted somewhere pictures of what I did to my bow.

Johnny that was a very informative answer and I did see the picture you were referring to earlier for the access hole in the front. I didn't mean to hijack this thread but it's all great information. I probably should have mentioned that mine is the A22 not the A20 but i'm pretty sold on the setup you have mentioned. Thanks again for the great input!

Well Johnny I hope you get some commission for Straight Line or free bags or something, because you convinced me to look at the 600s and I decided I would rather have the better fitting bags without the pressure on all the hoses & compartments. Coincidently my local pro shop was having a buy one get on 50% off sale for black Friday, so I picked them up on the cheap. I still need to get all the PNP fittings and the front bag, but I’m waiting to see how that Sumo Axis-bow sac turns out so please keep us posted if you hear any more on that March-April market date.

Gib- There is usually between 4-6 people in the boat, we are at about 700ft and mainly wakeboard and surf. I’ve been trying to do a little more research on props but I can’t find much more info other than the prop names and sizes, which means nothing to me right now. (I’m starting to see that it’s more of a preference thing rather than a specific prop for a set amount of weight.)

The ballast setup I’m currently looking at pulling with is the 800lbs of hard tanks, 2x Sumo 600 in the rear lockers, and the 950 axis bow sac in the front. Totaling 2,950lbs of water ballast (it's wake math yo) plus people.

I did manage to run across this site that was a little more helpful, but again not a lot of info on the props themselves.
http://www.wakeprops.com/wakeboard-boat ... propellers

According to this site with the weight we’re talking about I should be looking at the Plus 2 Upgrade -ACME 1235 or the Plus 3 Upgrade- ACME 2079, but I would rather take actual axis owners recommendations on the props over a web site.

Here’s where it starts to go off the rails for me; where does the 2315 compare to the 2079 and 1235? It is in-between the two? Or is it for pulling even heavier weight than the 2079?

Also the site says that the 2079 is for "when top speed is of no concern." I would like the ability to dump the weight and pull a slalom skier if I had to but it's not a deal breaker especially if I have to sacrifice in wakeboarding and surfing performance.



Thanks again for all the help everyone.